@OwO Yea that's stupid only 20 rounds means I'm basically gonna probably be reloading half empty magazines most of the time I bet. If they won't change the stuff like the spawns that caused the current meta to exist at least their new weapons should be on par with the meta weapons (the fact most the Jiu Feng stuff looks cool but is useless compared to the old meta stuff without rebalance mods still makes me sad lol).

@Brofessor® indeed
these weapons i would say they are not ''bad''
but they are bad in the current state of payday, with all the spawns, cop damage, cop variety and stuff

@OwO Exactly, lol.

(Now for us to watch them read all the complaints about PD2's current balance over the years and be like "nah, let's just make a pvp + battle royale playlist that will have 700 active players it by the end of the year", lol)

yea, i feel like they will probably do something dumb like this, i mean had the crime war or something for cellphones, which was a interessting PvP idea if im being honest, but it got shut down after some time because they didnt have a publisher
so they'll most likely make:
1 - a battle royale styled mode
2 - they'll try another PvP style with either same idea but different execution
3 - all of the above and give us the middle finger when it comes to rebalancing

tbh tho, the models and visuals for the police in crime war were actually pretty neat, i just wish they could've used in payday 2
either a skin or a new heister
hell, just remove Ethan and Hila from the game, and ad like, a Normal cop unit with a bunch of alternative uniforms, from swat, fbi, gensec, zeal and their heavy / light variants
and maybe a special skin, just a green dozer with the choices of visuals as, greenblack/gensec/medicdozer/minigun dozers, and the visual of a taser or medic

because a bunch of people say stuff like ''BuT wE aLrEaDy HaVe a Ex CoP oN oUr tEaM, BeInG dRaGaN'' well yea, but that ''he was an ex cop'' is only something added to his backstory, he doesnt have anything else that might resemble or remind u of the police
now, grab a heister that IS a police unit, give him some nice background of, maybe he decided to give up fighting the payday gang (since thanks to the lore, we never actually lose/die) so he was like ''F-ck it, if we cant beat them, then lets join them'' and then he joined the gang while also offering some Intel about the cops and when they do safe house raids and other stuffs

@OwO For me I'm guessing 3. I wouldn't put it past them in trying to make PD3 give the middle finger in balance and just slap on BR and PVP. I think they seem to be scared of taking any risks now after almost going broke and don't want to make balance changes... cause they probably think making it like current year PD2 is the "safe" route financially (probably gonna backfire on them if that's what they really end up doing, cause old PD2 was way more popular in players than current PD2 so if anything PD3 being more like old PD2 would actually make it sell more).

I actually once went on a binge of watching Crime War vids on youtube and it did seem interesting, one thing I thought did add to the formula was how the players on the cop side could spawn as specials L4D2 versus style (the hit detection/netcode didn't seem good though, phone game and phone internet I know, but that makes me doubt they would be able to make the hit detection good in a hypothetical PD3 pvp). The fact I didn't know Dragan was an ex cop until now goes to show we don't have anything that resembles an ex-cop too. I'd delete and replace Ethan and Hila with disgruntled police units (or Gensec) working for the Payday gang and give us the crime war cop skins in a heartbeat. (I'm kinda surprised Overkill never at least removed the H3H3 DLC for sale, especially since Ethan basically just pocketed all the leftover money he promised he'd start that FUPA fund with for himself and then told everyone who called him out on it "yeah I pocketed it, why are you gonna do about it", lol.)

''The fact I didn't know Dragan was an ex cop until now goes to show we don't have anything that resembles an ex-cop too''

EXACLY
i think the only thing people know dragan for is for the fact that he was introduced during the butcher's DLC
and also his...weird memes
and yea i think they should've just replaced Ethan and hila with 2 police officers, the tag team perk can either be removed, since it's pretty much outclassed by Gambler or leech, or just get delivered to the game for free (very unlikely)
the airbow can...............................................i absolutly have no idea what can be done about that item, used to have high concealment as a joke, now it's low and it's useless compared to any other bow, can still be fun tho

@OwO Indeed, just delete those two and just replace them with cops, deleting the airbow and the perk deck and just giving a free replacement that isn't useless would be good too. I find it hard to imagine anyone is actually buying those two anymore anyway.

(Now I want an Ex-Medic cop with Healer Perkdeck, lol)

@Brofessor® a medic with a healer perk huh? honestly i wish we had a medic perk deck that focused on healing teammates without having to risk your own life just to heal help your team, like gambler that forces u to sometimes go in the open just to get a ammo box to heal your team a little bit WHICH ALSO DOES NOT WORK IF PEOPLE USE BESERK, which seems to be 99% of the cases or Leech which kinda is good, but forces u to take a lot of damage and risk getting downed a lot of times just to keep your team alive, so either u live, or your team live and u die, making so that your team wont have healing help

some people say that a ''medic'' perk is Crew chief which does give plenty of health and good stuff IF you have hostages, and yea makes sense but you kinda of depend too much on hostages

i think a cool perk would be a throwable a bit similar to Tag team, but it works like a small Morphine shots, so to say
upon looking at a team mate, you press 3 and will give them 80 HP points and a small dmg resistence (if u use combat meds and pain killers)
with a cooldown of 1 second for use, and 30 seconds for it to recharge, killing enemies reduces 1 second perk kill, you have 5 charges, you can also hold the throwable key to give a morphine shot on yourself, healing 100 hp points for you, if your team mate is downed, you can still use the Morphine shot on him, reviving and healing him for 80 HP points, altho that will still use your morphine charge in exchange for extra health instead of the normal Inspire
with that, you also get some Extra health to keep you alive during the fight, with all of that, the last perk grants you and your team Extra Health and a small 10% dmg reduction just for a small protection

now is this balanced? well most likely not, but..meh still sounds a bit more cool and fitting for a Medic unit

@OwO I do wish the former two "support" decks were better that's for sure lol. Both Crew Chief and Gambler basically force you to use the ICTV and their perks can be kind of irrelevant based on what others use (zerk players making support healing completely irrelevant indeed & to some extent support dmg reduction is kind of less relevant to suit players).

Sounds like a good base to build a good perk deck + better F2P tag team replacement on. I guess if I were to add to it I'd make healing myself not only heal myself but also automatically heal/res the closest player on the team for 40 health (just so we don't get the annoying situations similar to KF2 where randoms there never use their syringe to heal almost dead people even though in that game healing teammates heals more and the cooldown is halved).

@Brofessor® yea, i remenber once i was playing with the gambler perk deck, brought medkits and medic bags, even a medic LAS (the murkywater one for the head model)
full on medic build basicly.....and then i fell on a team where literally all 3 players had anarchist perks and berzerk skills
and every time i tried to help them with medkits and stuff, they just ignored me because they needed to have their health at low levels, honestly it made my build kinda of useless

and even without that, payday 2 player base and the game itself doesnt rlly force you to work as a team, most people just equip those akimbo shotguns and run around killing everyone AND your fps
so trying to be helpfull as a team mate comes down to ''kill cops and dont die''
and the only ''coop'' that u get in this is deploying medic bags and/or ammo bags
even medkits dont count on that thanks to how 99% of the people that bring the 14 medkits, only bring it for Themselves...

so i think if they (overkill) made a perk deck like this, it would be really good, altho if they dont change the way the game is balanced, then trying to make it more cooperative with items wont work

hell, look at the new deployable, the ordinance bag, a really good item that gives back all your throwables per charge, and yet, nobody seems to use it or even know HOW to do it
this is the level of ''coop'' that we are in this game

@OwO Damn, that sucks. In current era Payday 2 I'd rather Gambler get reworked to give like, 10 armor regen per sec over 4 secs per ammo pickup or something for the exact reasons like what you just mentioned. Health support doesn't help certain builds, but every build, whether dodge, armor, or zerk benefits from free armor gating in one way or another.

Anything Payday 3 does (or any future rebalance updates to PD2) needs to make it so people actually stay together and work together as a team again. If they don't punish the player for not sticking to the team or make enemies that require actual focus fire to make people stick together, then the game is never going to feel like a real team game (the current specials are intended to do this but the max special count nowadays is too low to properly vibe check some guy with akimbo shotguns killing all the spawns and FPS on the map). Most other teamgames nowadays have this same problem and just boils down to "helpful player = spam max DPS kill stuff good" too (with the healing/support stuff there as just a newbie trap for new players who thought they were getting a team game) and it's annoying and almost feels like bait and switch.

Funny thing about that ordinance bag, I've never seen anyone put it down in my games, lol. Guess it goes to drive further home that the level of actual coop is nonexistent atm lol. The moment people are forced to stick together like a proper team game and not just run off on their own to camp spawns suddenly all the other deployables actually become useful in a coop sense. Ammo bags become relevant again because everyone is in one place and can't just run around picking up their own boxes. Sentry Guns become something beyond that niche thing you just put on the windows in Rats Day 1.Etc

@Brofessor® to be honest, a gambler perk that actually regens your armor instead of health does sound pretty damn good
i feel like this is what the armorer perk deck could've been like it, i mean the perk deck description literally says that the armorer is the dude who's job is to keep the team's armor intact, so why does this perk only have 1 single card that adds 10% more armor for your team? and the rest is only for u?! h-how does that benefits the team? as the description says..

and yea, when people start working togheter, you start to see how much necessary it is to use the equipament
i remenber one day i was playing Heat street with a couple of randos, and none of them were using akimbo or launchers, so i was like ''oookay this might be a good game after all''
and boy oh boy, the moment we got on the top of the overpass the diaherria started hitting the fan, i was using the Full Speed Swarm mod, so the street was absolutly saturated of cops, and...w-what this? everyone actually stayed togheter? nobody rushed? and we moved from car to car to use cover? a-all togheter? a-as...A-A TEAM?!?!

for real tho, that was one of the most satisfying fellings i ever had in payday, seeing people work togheter as a team and in the end actually survive and finish the heist was a once in a life time felling

@OwO Yup, it was definitely a missed opportunity, lol. o7

Those are exactly the types of once in lifetime experiences/games I want too. I had a similar experience like that in Green Bridge using FSS & the spawngroup mod I mentioned. Many a metaslave got downed a lot thinking they could rush alone to the usual spots and quickly ragequit, but the people who wanted to stay eventually got the hint to work as a team and we started advancing slowly from car to car, digging in, and even backing up when things got too much, lol.

(Now I'm tempted to upload this spawngroup mod of mine because I think everyone should be able to have satisfying moments like that where everyone is forced to work as a team, but I bet it'd probably get suspended lol)

@Brofessor® well if you want, isntead of posting in here on mw, you can try to upload it on dropbox then send me the link to it
tbh it just feels better to put mods in there so that the mw moderators wont keep suspendind them

and yea i agree, the amount of times i've seen try hards with akimbo grimms just running face first into a crowd of enemies and the moment they get downed they just rage quit is..worringly high
even with noobs, like that's the problem, the noobs end up seeing this, and because they dont know shit about the game, they think that this will work, so they go there, rush like idiots, die, and then get confused and leave the game

here's a quick tip, noobs most of the times stay close to players that are high levels, so if u have some high level and a noob stay close to you, teach him visually how to deal with enemies and use cover, he will see it, learn, and use it
i did this countless times and it saved a lot of noobs getting downed, and most of the times when they did get downed, they kinda of apologized and i said ''dont worry, most of the times u cant rlly dodge a sniper/cloaker'' to aliviate the situation, it makes them feel better and perform better

hell, in the part i said that i played heat street with a good coop, we had a lvl 98 on the team, with no infamy and not even health regen skills, and he did pretty well by staying in cover with us
people, mostly tryhards, need to lay down their shotguns and stoic flasks and try to help the new players coming in every day, because if they dont, the game is gonna keep getting noobies that dont know how to play and try hards being more and more annoying

@OwO lol yeah, I'll do that instead

https://www.dropbox.com/s/m8r8q7gzy3be5ai/edited version of increase special spawn limit mod i changed.7z?dl=0
(it was kinda mostly just borrowed code from another mod where I just went to the section with the DW groups and changed them, not like there's more than 1 way to code a spawngroup mod though)

Probably too late to teach the tryhards/wannabes who don't listen run around with meta builds and die (cause they think they know everything from copying some build). But new players who actually wanna listen they're fun to help and teach how to play the game are definitely great.

(saw your friend request/comment on steam and replied/added you back) o7

@Brofessor® (alrighty thank you mate uwu)
and yea i dont think these tryhards will be able to be teached something about Cooperation, they'll just keep seeing b33croft build videos and keep copying and pasting them without ever trying something new or something meant to be actually FUN

@OwO Yea for sure, of course, lol o7

At that point they have to realize on their own being a tryhard is kinda cringe, get bored of the meta, and eventually download cool rebalance mods lol.

@Brofessor® yea, like i did
i already wasted 3000 hours of my life on this game and i can confidently say:
the only fun youcan have in this game now is either downloading mods to bring the game back to the 2013 version
or get some mods to cosplay as a character in the game, idk go as a bulldozer, a cloaker to beat the sh-t out of people, a taser with your eletric grenades and ammo, hell, equip yourself with only explosives and turn the map into a nuclear war, it's just way more fun than trying to play vanilla nowadays

@OwO Indeed the people who don't wanna mod the game (or complain about others modding their gameplay for no good reason) have no idea what they're missing out on, lol. o7

@Brofessor® indeed
i've seen so many people just get overly mad about my mods, even tho most of them arent even big things or cheats
and i ahte how people refer to mods so many times as ''cheats'' even for stuff that is just a texture change

it just goes to show how little these people know about mods, yet act like they are smart and know everything about it to try to make u not use them or give some bs excuse to kick u