Hell, the only good use of SA is the matchmaking setting that lets you avoid SA lobbies.

@skippi99r

I think the best example of CS being absolutey broken is Framing Frame.

Day 1: Pick up all the paintings, then toss them all through the window in one fell swoop.

Day 2: Carry all the bags to the van, secure in one fell swoop (it's more time-saving than cheaty, but still)

Day 3: Carry multiple bags of coke and secure them all in the first trip. The Gold is the same deal. CS:Reloaded is a bit more "balanced" than the original CS, so it'll probably be a few more trips if you use CS:R and don't want to risk it, but it still circumvents the difficulty of the heist.

All in all, one of the more difficult heists in the game is reduced to a joke when using CS / CS:R.

@skippi99r

for carry stacker, imagine theres 5 guards walking around a room and you need to get 5 bags across, with CS you can put them up and make one trip easily, without it you need to make multiple trips and increase the chance of you getting caught, it makes the game significantly easier

there's a speed penalty. so it's not 1:1 just put on more bags

@KamelittaOida
Exataly. People keeps talking about how "cheaty" those mods are because they only think about how they work without the already very balanced default settings including the penalty system.
In SA case yeah you can kill the guards without triggering pagers but only if they don't get alerted OR if you don't reach the detection metter limit. And you also have only 2 pagers which can be configurated from 0 to 4 and set how many pagers each player can answer. Like 4 pagers but each player can answer it only once.
As for CS If I recall it right in framing frame you can get 3 or 4 bags of gold at a time with the default settings on but you walk with the same speed you would while carrying a nuke from meltdown or a engine from big oil. Slower to the point you're almost stop.

Using the default options of both mods makes them actually realistic. For exemple:
CS in real life - You go to the market and buy 4 bags worth of products and then you go home on foot. Question: You'll walk home carrying a single bag, leave it and then come back to the market to take another one untill you carried all 4 bags one at a time or you'll put 2 bags in both hands and walk away? Of course you'll walk slower than normal but unless you have mental issues I think you'll carry all 4 bags in one go.

SA in real life - Try killing a officer silently before he get the time to call for backup and comment here if his pager will trigger. Unless he had some kind of pact with a spirit from the afterlife to use the pager after he died I'm sure no one will call him anytime soon.

(Bonus) Hefty in real life - Seriously how someone ain't strong enough to carry 2 keycards?????? People nowadays have like 2 or 3 credit cards inside their wallets. Not to mention that PANTS HAVE POCKETS.

Anyway no point getting mad at those mods. They only work if you're the host or if the host also has it installed so if you join someone that's not modded but you are then you won't be able to use it just so you don't "ruin" their experience. Fair enough in my opinion.

@Berk Rider if you're using realistic stuff in payday 2, stealth wouldn't happen because they will call the cops after they see you ONCE.

For the option for both mod, you NEED an option to make it less cheaty, you should think about that. Another thing is, if you use sniper or 5/7 pistol or shotgun with ap slug, you can basically snipe every single enemy at spawn without even moving (Shadow Raid for example).
It's a mod that turn stealth even more of a joke, and combine with CS, it make carrying bag less tedious but cheaty at the same time and make the game even more of a joke. EVEN the developer said it's a CHEAT, confirmed.

No matter how you tweak SA and CS, it's still broke gameplay and will forever be cheat. The only thing SA can do is adding a "Random pager" that called in even after you bag the corpse. That will make it "Realistic" enough to make it not cheaty.

@Undefined Not sure if this was in the original CS but some guy made a "Reloaded" version which lets you carry multiple bags depending on their assigned weight and how ever much weight you had on your carried bags would slow you down. Ofc you could change the settings to be super cheaty where every bag is as light as coke, but that is how the "Reloaded" worked. But your example is a good one to highlight the problem. I ultimately removed it when playing for the reason alone. Although it was "balanced", it did feel very cheap. Best I am okay with is allowing the ability to sprint with any bag but still have that speed penalty in effect whilst sprinting.

@Çaptain Ålpha
Why usually in real life when a civilian witnesses a murderer killing someone they also get killed in the process? Exatally, so they can't call the cops. No difference from how you kill alerted civies in the game except that for some reason you pay money for it...

Both mods already have options that makes them less cheaty and actually more challenging. SA for exemple, you configure it to have 0 pagers (or 4 but each player can answer it only once) then you put a detection limit and try playing it, even SA veterans fails to kill guards unalerted sometimes and reseting everytime you fail to do so makes it even more challenging. As for CS just like you can make a nuke weight like a plume you can make a bag of jewels weight a ton, why don't you put all bags to weight like you're carrying an elephant and try playing shadow raid or shackletorne auction with all loot secured for exemple...

BTW what mod (or hack) are you using to kill everyone with AP rounds without moving from the spawn in shadow raid? It's kinda hard to believe this is possible without anyone noticing. Also you would need not only an unlimited reach sixt sence skill to see every enemy on the map but also a tweak for AP bullets to penetrate even more walls than normal...

Of course the CS mod dev would say it's a cheat, why else he would create options for you to completelly remove the speed limit penalty for every bag you carry? Again it's just a cheat depending on how you play with it. The default options are already very well balanced in my opinion but I'm not responsible for how people uses it...

The game never needed either mods to consider the stealth gameplay broken since it always have been. A good exemple is how guards spot you without even looking at you, after all it seems they have eyes on the back of their heads. Or the fact that they make instant turns which most of the times spot you in half a second or less. Or the fact that a gym bag have ~75 detection rate and can be even more dangerous than a armed masked heister. Not to mention the body bags, you have a limit of how many body bags you can carry but you have unlimited bags to put loot in '-' I could spend the whole day here pointing problems or unrealistic features of this game related to stealth...

Ever watched death race 2? SPOILER ALERT
From 1:33:07. 14k sends an assassin to kill Kane as a debt payment for Frankenstein saving his life during the race. The assassin goes through all the guards killing them without ever getting noticed or tripping any alarms. We can say he's totally an "silent assassin" :V (Ba dum tss*)

@skippi99r Except Stealth in PD2 has always been hot buggy garbage where you could get spotted through walls or completely negate NPCs seeing bodies with the hidden head exploit. What the fuck are you on about? You're completely missing the point of mods like CS and SA existing: to some, the bag carrying feature and the stealth gameplay are largely not enjoyable and are merely a no-brainer chore which is just there to make you crank extra minutes into a heist. These mods exist to provide a more appropriate experience to those who don't want to deal with a game's shitty portions of gameplay. Throwing 12 bags of cash all the way to a specific point isn't engaging gameplay, it's time-wasting bullshit.