Comparing ECM Rush Helper and Alesso Helper with cheats seems rather unfair.

You may as well compare all mods with cheats at that point, and then be restricted to only playing vanilla.

HUD mod... cheat.
Bug Fix mod... definitely a cheat.
Texture mod... well obviously anything that goes in mod_overrides is the worst of all cheats and deserving of a permanent ban.

While I can understand an absolute contempt for cheats or the people that use them, outside of those it all comes down to personal preference.

@Plague Mods turn into cheats when you replace a skill with mods. What do Huds replace? Health icons? Do texture mods replace your skill? Will you play better if you put Almir's face on a bulldozer's helmet? People SHOULD learn to play, not use various kinds of helpers.

@Krabik I agree with that. I just don't consider something like ecm rush helper a cheat.

From my use of ecm rush helper so far it just prints out information that you'd be typing in chat anyway and automates the process, information that those with some experience shouldn't need anyway. I've only used it as host playing standard stealth with no ecm rushes, so there may be other features that i am not aware of but I didn't notice anything relevant in the description.

Anyone with even limited experience ecm rushing should be able to organise and coordinate who places ecms and when. Although, my experience with high level crime spree ecm rushes has shown that a ridiculous number of players seem unable to figure out that you need to bring ecms that block pagers to an ecm rush, or how to coordinate it so that you only use one ecm at a time instead of having numerous ecms active simultaneously. For them it's probably a cheat but for anyone with some understanding of how this game mechanic works calling it a cheat seems to be hyperbolic.

I haven't used alesso helper but it similarly seems to just print out information in chat, provide a timer and inform you whether you selected the correct button or not. If anyone needs help figuring out which button is left, centre or right I think they have way bigger issues and no mod is going to help resolve this problem, further education will be their only solution.

I absolutely hate cheats, and anyone who joins my lobbies with these receives an instant kick, but KXSAVS3CH mods just do not meet my criteria of what is considered a cheat, not even close. This however is obviously based on my perspective, and what I consider a cheat you may not and vice versa. As long as it doesn't negatively impact the experience of others it should be up to user discretion.

I can understand and appreciate your perspective though.

To begin with, I want to express my gratitude for the fact that you gave me an adequate answer, and did not start spreading dirt in the comments. I appreciate it. Nevertheless, I have something to say.

Let me summarize what you said about these two mods. The fact is that our game is full of hacks who are looking for various kinds of ways to make their game easier for themselves. Experienced players don't need these mods for the most part, but new players (who will later make up the bulk of online as old players leave) are replacing the skill with mods. The same mod showing how long it is until the end of the ecm. The player must develop mechanical memory, know the timings, and not rely on the timer in the chat.

Let's take the same Alleso. It's clear that even a beginner will understand which buttons to press. But there will be people (and I doubt that there will be few of them) who will put this mod purely in order to make their life easier. In order to press two of the three buttons, no skill is needed, however, the player can make a mistake and waste time if he is distracted by the factors surrounding him (and he has to be distracted by them, at least if he decided to complete the mission loudly). With this mod, the player can not get worn out and be distracted by everything, because the mod will still show him which buttons to press. In a word, it sucks.

Anyway, I am grateful for your answer. It's really nice to read that, and I understand your point of view.

Post scriptum: Maybe I really exaggerated by calling it a cheat. Even though I think that there is no place for helpers in this game, the author of the mod really does not deserve such criticism in his address, and even more so the closure of comments. I'm even sorry that everything came to this ...

@Plague Anyway, I am grateful for your answer. It's really nice to read that, and I understand your point of view.

Post scriptum: Maybe I really exaggerated by calling it a cheat. Even though I think that there is no place for helpers in this game, the author of the mod really does not deserve such criticism in his address, and even more so the closure of comments. I'm even sorry that everything came to this...

@Krabik
I am 3 months late, and although I partially agree with your statements, surprise, I am not in others. No one is the one to tell other players how they should play THEIR OWN GAME. Payday 2, whether you want to watch it or not, is a video game unequivocally lacking in consistency and logic when it comes to dictating to players how they should play (vanilla sins). Many of the mods present in Workshop are not intended to cheat (as many here want to make it seem, I repudiate that idiot Helmut), and if they were, I find it quite ironic that the site did not remove them as soon as they had been published on the website. Because, surprise, they are not traps -_-

Vanilla mode sucks in many things, several of them typical of the incompetence of the developer behind this product. And I find it quite curious that they accuse us of being cheats, when the game itself commits very unfair and disgusting cheats against us in many respects! Or did you already forget about the invincible guard on day 3 of Framing Frame just for the sake of it? Not to mention the stratospheric glitches plaguing the game that can and have ruined entire games. That the community has to take charge of fixing (or at least trying) those errors gives a lot to talk about Overkill Software and Starbreeze Studio, no matter how little manpower they have, no matter how close they are to finishing in the bankruptcy, this only has one word, and it's shit.

In short, while I respect your opinion and you have some reason, it is not the absolute truth, thank God. You neither I nor nobody is absolutely nobody like to tell others how they should play their own game, who do you think you are?

Everyone enjoys their own game IN HIS WAY, and they are not implicitly bad players if the opposite were the case. And whoever comes to tell me otherwise can go to hell. You do not like? I understand, but the "Exit Game" button is always there.

Don't forget that, at the end of the day, this is just a game, and it should be seen as such. Not real fucking life.

ikr this ones wierd tho since it barely does anything. the pyrotechnics are already easy.

BTW the pyro sequence is directly what Bain downloaded for us. Not cheat.