it always has been, and has been confirmed by developers that its a cheat mod

@skippi99r iirc, only SA and CS are considered as cheats

@「Hinaomi」 You'll get banned from the OVK discord, no questions asked, if you talk about using cheat mods. And someone complained and got a response from a moderator in the steam discussions board for PD2 because they got banned for saying they use Better Bots.

@skippi99r when did they say better bots was a cheat? just curious i know they said SA was a cheat

WeaponLib is a cheat mod too

@Ellis™ Better bot i believe it has an option to change bot damage, i never used it but saw that option as a cheat since you can just make your bots deal a million damages and kill everything. On top of that, it make bots react faster and also with super accuracy option make 1 shot 1 kill.
To me, it's felt like a cheat than a mod.

@Çaptain Ålpha

i never used it

you can just make your bots deal a million damages and kill everything

A recurring theme I've seen is that people who don't use "cheat" mods exaggerate what the mods actually do.

Some other dude said that Better Bots buffs the bot's HP to the point where they're "invincible", when it's actually just the game's default bot HP, and it even allows you to lower it if you want.

As for 1M damage: it's only a 5x damage multiplier at best, which amounts to 150dmg on good weapons (Shotguns + LMGs). You can also lower it if you want.

Considering the paltry damage that crappy bots deal (30), it's only fair when the massive horde you're facing deals double that damage on just DW. On DS, it's obvious that 30dmg doesn't cut it, not from a Human player, and not from a crappy bot.

BTW, 150dmg is actually around what most players with good builds are getting.

As someone who uses Better Bots, here's my thoughts:

• They're necessary on DS if you play with bots
• They're not an automatic win; you still have to run objectivs. At best, they carry their own weight
• The enemy AI will always prefer targeting you over bots (that's by design), so you still have to watch your back
• Without something like Keepers, they still suck because they're always tailing you rather than setting up in tactical positions
• If you don't position them correctly, they will get downed
• If you positioned them in a really bad spot, it creates an endless cycle of bots reviving each other until they're all downed

@Undefined issue being payday is a coop game, when bots are equal to or better than your average player it discourages coop. same goes for keepers and other bot improving mods, if you have issues playing solo then just play online. there's also the issue that cs and sa trivialize games but do not prevent others from joining you who may be unaware of your changes. I cannot explain to you how frustrating it is for many players yo join and online ame gand be forced to?immediately leave due to host cheating.

@Çaptain Ålpha yeah better bots is kinda cheaty i jusat set their dmg to X1 and all i alow them to rly do is dominate cops, all other options is just to much

@Undefined the bad impression from me to the mod are because i have saw some stream/video that show the bots can just kill dozer SUPER fast, it's like a player with damage buff and with really good accuracy.
I would like to show you the example but it will take time for me to look through the stream vod itself, the streamer name is Kevkild and he was trying to help a player to beat Goat simulator but turn out, the bot already do all the killing and the host just drove the car without any danger.

@Çaptain Ålpha combined with the AP round bot skill you can have the game plays itself at that point

@mercu

If the game were co-op, they should stop allowing one-man army builds, which discourage cooperation and leads to people wandering off on their own and dying in the middle of nowhere and then things like Inspire become "necessary" in the eyes of 80% of the playerbase.

if you have issues playing solo then just play online.

I had issues playing online, so I play solo.

In case y'all don't realize it, most public lobbies suck. I'm not the only one who feels this way, either. There's a lot of solo players and our numbers are growing and we all agree that even crappy bots are better than most public lobbies.

@Undefined If my bot can help me Solo Shadow Raid I promise I never play in public LOL

@Çaptain Ålpha

that show the bots can just kill dozer SUPER fast,

Players are capable of melting dozers even faster. Only one is considered a cheat, though.

I would like to show you the example but it will take time for me to look through the stream vod itself ... the bot already do all the killing and the host just drove the car without any danger.

If you can find it, I'd like to see it. I don't doubt what you're saying, but I think there's other things at play here.

Once you're in the car and moving, you're either leaving the bots behind or the bots are with you in the car (default behavior is to get inside once you're inside). In either case, you can't drive very far without getting shot at.

I've done DSOD Goat Sim with Better Bots and my experience taught me that moving the car after the first assault wave is suicide, even on Fade / Control. You're just completely defenseless once inside and the enemy AI targets you.

@Arknights

lol best they can do is help secure bags, but that's only once you've done like 95% of the work. :D

@Undefined https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1038581435?t=6h4m5s
Here's the vod, he stream a lot and do rant a lot. Anyway, playing goat simulator with bots only should not make you driving your car around without danger and yes, the streamer help him by killing the enemies but it's not that much since he don't want to help him in the first place Since bot already doing amazing job as sniping every other enemies.

@Çaptain Ålpha He can also have cheat mods which change the health and damage multipliers on enemies. The guy he was in a lobby with was also using cheat mods that allowed him to change his throwable so he using more stuff than just Better Bots. That would explain the Dozers dying rapidly to AI. It might not be Better Bots. It might be other hidden mods that either alter cop HP or alter team AI damage. Anyone with minimal coding experience can look into rebalance mods' files and alter them to make things OP.

@ilrath funny i used to use silent assassin until i realized it was a literal cheat, i was in one of his videos beleive it or not and he was making fun of me for using said cheat but now im hearing he to uses cheats makes me laugh

@ilrath Agree

@Arknights i think he deleted his "stop cheating" videos cause im looking at his channel and i cant find any of them, and i remember the video at the time my name was Oven_Grill Ellis and it was on Breaking feds and we had a pirate perfection Premium player jojn and he was tazing me.